20              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Oh, well, it's

         21   something to aim for.  Scott, Agenda Item 22.

         22              MR. SCHULTZ:  Agenda Item No. 22,

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          1   Committee No, 5, ratification process.  The Committee

          2   sends this motion to the Board without

          3   recommendation.

          4              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  So, the Committee

          5   has debated Agenda Item 22, and essentially they have

          6   no recommendation for you, so it is on the floor, as

          7   it was originally proposed.  Is there discussion?  We

          8   are amending the Policy Manual, so, when we get to

          9   the vote, it is a majority.  Discussion on Agenda

         10   Item 22?  Mike -- I'm sorry, Gary's first, and the

         11   Mike, the dueling MEC Presidents.  Gary?

         12              MR. RICHARDSON:  Richardson, Council 66,

         13   for America West Airlines.  I'd like to thank the

         14   Committee and the delegates for accepting this as a

         15   late Agenda Item.

         16              As I had told you before when I proposed

         17   this as a late Agenda Item, at our last Council

         18   meeting, over a hundred of our members attended that

         19   meeting, carrying with them, 300 proxies, and

         20   requested that I bring this forward as a late Agenda

         21   Item.

         22              I also would like to recognize that we do

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          1   have members of AFA Council 66 in attendance today.

          2   Thank you for attending.  I appreciate that.

          3              What this Agenda Item contemplates, is

          4   that in the event of merger between two or more

          5   carriers, and the ratification vote for a single

          6   agreement, that that ratification vote will be taken

          7   and it will be a separate ratification vote.

          8              Each of the carriers would have a say in

          9   that ratification process.  My members feel that that

         10   would be in their best interests, that they would

         11   have an equal voice in the ratification process.

         12   It's important for the delegates to remember that

         13   single-contract negotiations, at least in this

         14   particular case, don't fall within the purview of

         15   Section 6 negotiations.

         16              Our Constitution is rather silent on that

         17   aspect.  As you know, there is a membership

         18   ratification under Section 6, but under single-

         19   contract talks, it doesn't necessarily address that

         20   in our Constitution.

         21              We need to ensure that there is a

         22   membership ratification and that members do have the

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          1   ability to ratify a single agreement, and I think

          2   that the delegates do need to take into account, that

          3   particular issue and the silence in the Constitution

          4   and Bylaws.

          5              My members -- in this particular instance,

          6   we have about 2,300 members at America West and 4,400

          7   or so at USAirways.  If you took the combined vote

          8   and a 50-percent-plus-one of that combined vote, you

          9   would have around 3,000 or so members that would be

         10   needed to cast a vote, affirmative, to accept an

         11   agreement.

         12              With America West having only 2,200 votes

         13   our members believe that their vote doesn't count.

         14   This Agenda Item allows that vote and their voice to

         15   be heard and that vote to be counted.

         16              It may be a perception issue, but it's

         17   reality for our members.  I urge the delegates to

         18   vote for this Agenda Item in the affirmative.  Thank

         19   you.

         20              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Mike and then

         21   Lynne.

         22              MR. FLORES:  Now I'm going to make a

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          1   speech.  I want to thank the Committee --

          2              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Could you identify

          3   yourself for the record, please?

          4              MR. FLORES:  I'm sorry.  Mike Flores,

          5   USAirways MEC.

          6              I want to thank the Committee for the

          7   consideration and time that they spent in allowing us

          8   to come and talk to the Committee and give them our

          9   views, and, you know, thank Gary.  Gary and I work

         10   very well together; we always have.

         11              This really is not an East-West issue.

         12   That's why I'm glad that the Committee actually, you

         13   know, offered it back to the Board with no

         14   recommendation, because that's where it really

         15   belongs.

         16              This is about the entire body, the entire

         17   membership in AFA, and the Committee did do the right

         18   thing by sending it back to the floor without a

         19   recommendation.

         20              I appreciate that.  It's here on the

         21   floor, because that's where it needs to be.  The

         22   Board needs to understand the consequences of what

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          1   this Agenda Item is asking.  It's my belief that what

          2   it's going to do, is cause nothing but havoc and

          3   divisiveness.

          4              No one has been merged, you know, as a

          5   verb, more than USAirways.  I mean, it seems like --

          6   I've been here since 1982, and people are still

          7   talking about Allegheny-Mohawk, literally.

          8              You know, we've gone through PSA, gone

          9   through Piedmont, Trump Shuttle, and now America

         10   West, and there was never a split vote, there was

         11   never a separate ratification on each side.

         12              I believe that the Constitution and Bylaws

         13   is silent for a reason, and, in fact, I don't even

         14   think it is silent.  It creates a voice for both

         15   sides, and that's called the Joint Negotiating

         16   Committee.

         17              Each side is represented by an equal

         18   number of members and that Committee comes together

         19   to look at the two contracts and look at the needs of

         20   both memberships and tries to work into a contract

         21   that meets everyone's needs.

         22              And that's where the voice is.  What this

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          1   Agenda Item would do -- and as an aside to that, at

          2   last year's Board, I actually put an amendment out,

          3   that passed, to increase the size of the Joint

          4   Negotiating Committees by one member on each side,

          5   because I thought, after I got into it, that two is

          6   not enough from each side.

          7              And "side" is the wrong word, but from

          8   each carrier.  And that did pass, so there will be,

          9   in future mergers, an increased Joint Negotiating

         10   Committee, which increases the voice for both

         11   carriers.

         12              What this item would do, it would give a

         13   more weighted voice to the smaller group.  And so the

         14   smaller group, then, would end up, rather than

         15   getting what they seek, which is equality, they would

         16   end up having control.

         17              Is that what we're about?  I don't think

         18   so.  I think we're about a majority.  That's the way

         19   we do things.  That's the way we ratify contracts,

         20   and this Agenda Item, if passed, would have the

         21   potential to inevitably take that process away, allow

         22   the minority to continue to stall or -- and I'm not

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          1   saying that's what's happening here, but it would

          2   give that smaller group, the ability to overrule the

          3   larger group or the majority, and that isn't what we

          4   want, I don't believe.

          5              And as far as single-Council/multi-

          6   Council, here's the way it works:  When a multi-

          7   Council airline ratifies a contract, we don't do it,

          8   base by base.  One base can't hold up a contract

          9   ratification vote, yes or no; it is the majority of

         10   the people that vote, that would ratify or not, that

         11   contract, and that's the way it needs to stay.

         12              We can't -- this is too dangerous to allow

         13   a system that would allow a minority group to control

         14   the process.  This is a democratic Union and we need

         15   to keep it that way, and I urge you to consider my

         16   thoughts.  Thanks.

         17              (Applause.)

         18              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Len, I had you on

         19   the list.  Pass?  Shawn?

         20              MR. FIVECOAT:  Council 93, Shawn Fivecoat.

         21   I was on the Committee for this, and we debated and

         22   hashed this thing for a good amount of time.

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          1              And I promised them that I wouldn't get up

          2   and speak on this particular issue, but I -- and I

          3   don't want to be critical in any way.  I think this

          4   is a basic communications problem.

          5              You're geographically challenged, that you

          6   have a huge group of people in the Northeast, and you

          7   have a huge group of people in Phoenix, and there's

          8   no connect between the two.

          9              We're all Flight Attendants, we all want

         10   the same thing.  I think that this problem can be

         11   solved, if there's an improvement in communication,

         12   and build trust between these two groups.  Thank you.

         13              (Applause.)

         14              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Anyone else?

         15   Gary?

         16              MR. RICHARDSON:  Yes, and thank you for

         17   those comments, and, thank you, Mike, for sharing

         18   your concerns on that.

         19              It's not about an equal issue at the joint

         20   negotiating table.  We are speaking as one voice on

         21   the joint negotiating table.

         22              This is about a ratification process for

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          1   the membership, and in that process, as you know, in

          2   our Constitution and Bylaws, we have a separate

          3   process in place, keeping the MECs separate, keeping

          4   the contract separate, keeping all aspects of the

          5   identity of the individual carrier separate, until

          6   the time that there is a ratified, single agreement.

          7              What this Agenda Item allows, is to also

          8   keep that ratification process separate.  It's not

          9   unheard of in other Unions within this country.  ALPA

         10   has a separate ratification process, not to be saying

         11   that we should be listening to ALPA, but, you know,

         12   they do have that separate ratification process.

         13              And we are talking about majority.  Each

         14   side in this merger, or each carrier in this merger,

         15   the majority of those members would decide whether to

         16   ratify an agreement or not.  So we do still speak to

         17   that majority issue.  Thank you.

         18              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  Okay, Mike.

         19              MR. FLORES:  To Shawn's point --

         20              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  And you are?

         21              MR. FLORES:  I am the same as I was five

         22   minutes ago, Mike Flores, USAirways MEC.  I'm sorry

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          1   that I always forget to introduce myself at every

          2   Board that I've been to.  I don't know why.  I

          3   apologize.

          4              INTL PRESIDENT FRIEND:  And we only do